[I] Society going down to hell
Hendrik Schober
> You can find complaints as far back as Socrates about how things aren't like they
> were in "the good old days" and how the world is going to hell in a handbasket.
> Either hell is a lot farther away than we thought, or that handbasket is moving
> *really* slowly.
I've heard this argument quite often, and the logical answer to it is
another question: What happened to Socrates' society? -- See, exactly.
Now, I'm not arguing in favor of such statements in general. Whatever you
complain about in today's society -- just look back ~2k years and then say,
with a straight face, people have been more caring and less violent back then.
Still, there's enough societies which _did_ go to hell in a handbasket. So
there really might have been members of them predicting exactly what was
going to happen, although I free admit most of these societies could bring
up the excuse that they fell victim to adverse circumstances (whether those
were climate changes, more barbaric, or more civilized people in their
vicinity).
Schobi
(who's so sick of the election thread, he just had to start his own)
Reader in Invisible Writings
2065 years ago our society where women had rights, babies; the infirm
(in either body or mind) and the old, were (by law) looked after - was
over run by a state that considered women to be goods, and those who
could not look after themselves to be rubbish to be thrown away if
desired, killed or left to die. They also indulged in ritual killing of
people (as entertainment) and other acts of inhumanity. However, they
wrote things down and since our society did not we there the Barbarians.
Socrates culture was also over run by the same forces, but now we
consider the Roman Empire to have been "the good old days".
--
Reader in Invisible Writings
Something to Ponder on!
GaryN
news:inrtbh$bri$1...@hoshi.visyn.net:
Societies change. It's a law or an old charter or something. A society
that doesn't change dies.
But, and there is always a but, which society do you mean?
In the UK we have city societies under surveillance from CCTV 24/7 and
we have rural societies which aren't. The two societies don't like each
other and each tends to keep to their own, otherwise conflict arises.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_Fuzz
So which one is going to hell in a handbasket? Quiet rural communities
where people will help you work out where to go, or cities where nobody
will give you the time of day?
Cities live on electronic information being sent around, rural societies
tend to rely on word of mouth as in "That Josh he's a good plumber and
his lad's a fair roofer"
The cities will die before the rural areas do. Good Riddance says I.
<challenge>
There is a quote from a sci fi author which says
"A large number of animals packed into too small a place will go insane.
Mankind is the only animal that does that to himself"
But I can't remember who or from which book - takers?
</challenge>
I've a feeling that it's from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Inside
but I can't find my copy to be sure.
Damn, just did find my copy[1] and it's a different quote although the
above challenge still stands and the feelings are the same. The quote
at the front of 'The World Inside is:
"Of all animals, men are the least fitted to live in herds. If they
were crowded together as sheep are they would all perish in a short
time. The breath of man is fatal to his fellows.
Jean-Jacques Rouseau."
gary
[1]I was looking for something else and practically tripped over it.
You try finding one book out of over 1K.[2]
[2]It's the SO's fault - she tried to tidy up and organise things. Now
we don't know where anything is!
--
"Send Lawyers, Guns and Money. The shit has hit the fan"
Warren Zevon
Larry Moore
> Damn, just did find my copy[1] and it's a different quote although the
> above challenge still stands and the feelings are the same. The quote
> at the front of 'The World Inside is:
>
> "Of all animals, men are the least fitted to live in herds. If they
> were crowded together as sheep are they would all perish in a short
> time. The breath of man is fatal to his fellows.
> Jean-Jacques Rouseau."
>
>
I'm not sure what science that Rouseau's opinions were based on,
considering the state of anthropology and neurobiology at his time.
There's a well considered counter-argument in:
Mother Nature: A History of Mothers, Infants, and Natural Selection by
Sarah Blaffer Hrdy (1999) Pantheon Books
Larry Moore
You are the most likely person here to be able to tell me how to
approach pronouncing the last name of Sarah Blaffer Hrdy.
GaryN
news:kO6dndy7O8gOMzzQ...@wightman.ca:
> On 10/4/11 5:30 AM, Hendrik Schober wrote:
> You are the most likely person here to be able to tell me how to
> approach pronouncing the last name of Sarah Blaffer Hrdy.
Isarah Buffy Hurdy Gurdy the teenage vampire slayer and organ grinder?
Do I win?
gary
Larry Moore
> Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:kO6dndy7O8gOMzzQ...@wightman.ca:
>
>> On 10/4/11 5:30 AM, Hendrik Schober wrote:
>> You are the most likely person here to be able to tell me how to
>> approach pronouncing the last name of Sarah Blaffer Hrdy.
>
> Isarah Buffy Hurdy Gurdy the teenage vampire slayer and organ grinder?
>
> Do I win?
>
> gary
Urk. What particular meaning of organ grinder would that be? :-)
I rather meant the primatologist, etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Blaffer_Hrdy .
Larry Moore
Chris Zakes
GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> to write:
(snip)
><challenge>
>There is a quote from a sci fi author which says
>"A large number of animals packed into too small a place will go insane.
>Mankind is the only animal that does that to himself"
>But I can't remember who or from which book - takers?
></challenge>
That sounds like Heinlein, possibly from the Notebooks of Lazarus
Long...
<sounds of rummaging in the library>
Yes, here it is: "Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in
too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does
this to himself."
-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
Larry Moore
>> You can find complaints as far back as Socrates about how things
>> aren't like they
>> were in "the good old days" and how the world is going to hell in a
>> handbasket.
>> Either hell is a lot farther away than we thought, or that handbasket
>> is moving
>> *really* slowly.
>
> I've heard this argument quite often, and the logical answer to it is
> another question: What happened to Socrates' society? -- See, exactly.
>
> Now, I'm not arguing in favor of such statements in general. Whatever
> you complain about in today's society -- just look back ~2k years and
> then say, with a straight face, people have been more caring and less
> violent back then.
or 1945 and argue the opposite?
> Still, there's enough societies which _did_ go to hell in a handbasket.
> So there really might have been members of them predicting exactly what
> was going to happen, although I free admit most of these societies could
> bring up the excuse that they fell victim to adverse circumstances
> (whether those were climate changes, more barbaric, or more civilized
> people in their vicinity).
>
> Schobi
> (who's so sick of the election thread, he just had to start his own)
Possibly, hell is a direction and not a destination?
--
E. O. Wilson noted, “As a species we are endowed with
Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and
near-godlike technological capacity.”
GaryN
news:5rj3q6le01hdvm9ac...@4ax.com:
> On 10 Apr 2011 12:25:50 GMT, an orbital mind-control laser caused
> GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> to write:
>
> (snip)
>
>><challenge>
>>There is a quote from a sci fi author which says
>>"A large number of animals packed into too small a place will go
>>insane. Mankind is the only animal that does that to himself"
>>But I can't remember who or from which book - takers?
>></challenge>
>
> That sounds like Heinlein, possibly from the Notebooks of Lazarus
> Long...
>
> <sounds of rummaging in the library>
>
> Yes, here it is: "Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in
> too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does
> this to himself."
>
> -Chris Zakes
> Texas
Dat der bunny! Cheers Chris, it would have annoyed me for days until I
could remember. For some reason I thought it was in either Soylent
Green or Harrison's "Make Room, Make Room" upon which the film was
loosely based.
Unfortunately the sounds of me rummaging through the (distributed)
library involve the sounds of running up and down the stairs here trying
to remember which room anything might be in, getting a bus to the SO's
place to check my stuff there and then getting a coach to Lincolnshire
[1] just in case it's in the stash of stuff I've left there. That's
just if I know what I'm looking for!
I was looking for my copy of "The Bone Pedlar" the other day and only
found it when I carelessly smacked my head on the shelf at the top of
the stairs thereby dislodging one of the many books stacked thereon
which bounced off my head. Guess which one - serendipity?
gary
[1]160 miles which is nothing by USian standards but if you've ever
travelled in UKia you'll know that's quite a trek.
Chris Zakes
GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> to write:
We're more fortunate in that regard. Our daughter's former bedroom has
been turned it into the library--five sets of custom-built bookcases,
each 6 feet high and 4 feet wide. We haven't *quite* filled them all
up yet. (And when we do, I'll build another bookcase.)
The books are alphabetized by author's name, and then sorted either
alphabetically by title (for most of them) or chronologically if that
makes more sense (like the Pratchett books.) So if I need to look
something up, it's a matter of walking ten feet from the computer to
the library to grab the book.
GaryN
Oh ours are all grouped by author so all the Pratchett stuff is
together, all the Morgan stuff is together, all four copies of The
Stainless Steel Rat (The earliest dating back to 1966)[1] are together
with the other Harrison stuff, etc. Most of the first edition hardbacks
are within two steps from the computer. But, and it's a big but, we
have similar bookshelves to yours spread through 3 rooms of this house
with the overflow going to the SO's place and some older stuff stored at
the Old Dear's place.
It wasn't planned that way but what I find is that if I'm wandering
around muttering "I know I've got a copy of it somewhere"[2] there are
multiple possible locations. This goes particularly for books bought
from charity shops because "That looks interesting", they just get
shoved into the 'readable for amusement when you're bored' lowest shelf
on the computer bookshelf or the shelf at the top of the stairs.
I'd hate to be the Librarian who had to catalogue this lot, a lot of the
Sci Fi paperbacks are older than me!
gary
[1]The book made a great impression on me and I can't resist buying old
copies when they turn up. [2]The equivalent of the
"Matches,matches,matches" Mantra.
Hendrik Schober
Me?! How's that?
I certainly never heard of her, but Hrdy seems Czech to me. The Czechs use H
(written and spoken) where their Indo-European neighbors (be they Slavic or
Germanic) usually use G[1], so this would account for the strange consonant
combination "hr": it's similar to our "gr". They also often don't use
consonants where we would. But except for the names of places we have our
own names for, I think they are still mostly pronounced the way the Czecks
do themselves (which I know very little about), so I would probably attempt
to pronounce "Hrdy" exactly the way it's written, with the "r" rolling and
the "y" somewhere between the German "ü" and "i".
Mhmm. Now you got me curious.
<rumages through google>
Wikipedia claims she got that name from her husband, but has nothing on him.
The names here <http://www.facebook.com/family/Hrdy/1>, where not
American[3], seem mainly Czech to me[4], and the few I clicked on definitely
were so.
And this <http://discovermagazine.com/2003/mar/feathrdy> says her last name
rhymes with "birdie", which seems close enough to my ideas.
HTH,
Schobi
[1] "Praha" vs. English "Prague" or German "Prag"
[2] as in "Brno" vs. "Brünn" in German (I don't know whether it has an
English name as well)
[3] "Schober", though definitely German in origin, finds more Americans
there, too, so I feel confident to dismiss America as the source of "Hrdy"
despite seemingly contrary evidence.
[4] Stanislav, Marek, Jaroslav, Brnd, Yana, Jozef...
Hendrik Schober
> On 10/4/11 5:30 AM, Hendrik Schober wrote:
>> On 10.04.2011 03:31, Chris Zakes wrote:
>>> You can find complaints as far back as Socrates about how things
>>> aren't like they
>>> were in "the good old days" and how the world is going to hell in a
>>> handbasket.
>>> Either hell is a lot farther away than we thought, or that handbasket
>>> is moving
>>> *really* slowly.
>>
>> I've heard this argument quite often, and the logical answer to it is
>> another question: What happened to Socrates' society? -- See, exactly.
>>
>> Now, I'm not arguing in favor of such statements in general. Whatever
>> you complain about in today's society -- just look back ~2k years and
>> then say, with a straight face, people have been more caring and less
>> violent back then.
>
> or 1945 and argue the opposite?
Note that I didn't argue that it ever was a smooth curve gently moving
upwards. There's always been dramatic oscillations. (Nevertheless, if you
put the numbers in perspective to the amount of people living at the
respective time, some cases of genocide might have been as bad back than as
the Nazis did.)
>> Still, there's enough societies which _did_ go to hell in a handbasket.
>> So there really might have been members of them predicting exactly what
>> was going to happen, although I free admit most of these societies could
>> bring up the excuse that they fell victim to adverse circumstances
>> (whether those were climate changes, more barbaric, or more civilized
>> people in their vicinity).
>
> Possibly, hell is a direction and not a destination?
Maybe. Yet, I wouldn't want to live in any society of the past, and see
those wanting to base this mainly on romanticized ideas that have little
grounding in the facts - which to me seems to indicate that hell lies the
other way.
Schobi
Hendrik Schober
>[...]
> 2065 years ago our society where women had rights, babies; the infirm
> (in either body or mind) and the old, were (by law) looked after - was
> over run by a state that considered women to be goods, and those who
> could not look after themselves to be rubbish to be thrown away if
> desired, killed or left to die. They also indulged in ritual killing of
> people (as entertainment) and other acts of inhumanity. However, they
> wrote things down and since our society did not we there the Barbarians.
> Socrates culture was also over run by the same forces, but now we
> consider the Roman Empire to have been "the good old days".
I wouldn't put too much faith in the old Germanic tribes being so much
better than the Romans who did (not[1]) overrun them. Here, Indo-Germanic
people made their weapon the main law, with the sentence mainly being death
to you and yours (unless mercy had the upper hand, in which case yours
weren't killed alongside you, but made into slaves instead). And the few
generally accepted laws that existed here are considered barbaric by even
our most backwards standards. (Debt slavery, anyone?)
And I don't think any Indo-Germanic tribe had a matriarchal society.
Schobi
[1] From where I am sitting (Berlin), the Romans were behind the border.
Larry Moore
OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
"If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season
shall we wait and for what other time shall we look? "
Larry Moore
> On 10.04.2011 15:20, Larry Moore wrote:
>> On 10/4/11 5:30 AM, Hendrik Schober wrote:
>> You are the most likely person here to be able to tell me how to
>> approach pronouncing the last name of Sarah Blaffer Hrdy.
>
> Me?! How's that?
>
> And this <http://discovermagazine.com/2003/mar/feathrdy> says her last
> name rhymes with "birdie", which seems close enough to my ideas.
>
> HTH,
>
> Schobi
>
Mind; based on the URL, it sounds like she checked with the source
before introducing her interview re "Mothers and Others".
Thanks, larry
GaryN
<snip>
> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>
> "If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season
> shall we wait and for what other time shall we look? "
I go with Larry on this one. I'm in my mid forties and I've had the highs
and the lows. But I have *LIVED* my life. I didn't just take up space
like another good little drone, I hope I never will.
I'm not in a position to change much of the 'Now' but the little I can
change I do (charity stuff). I'm already an anachronism in my own time,
why bother becoming even more so in the future?
The past got on alright without me and the future can do the same.
gary
Nigel Stapley
> Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:o4idneYlO4HU2T7Q...@wightman.ca:
>
> <snip>
>> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
>> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>>
>> "If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season
>> shall we wait and for what other time shall we look? "
>
> I go with Larry on this one. I'm in my mid forties and I've had the highs
> and the lows. But I have *LIVED* my life. I didn't just take up space
> like another good little drone, I hope I never will.
>
little interest to anyone and it also gives away rather more about
myself than perhaps is wise.
One of the contributory factors to the clinical Depression (see, Lesley?
Using the capital letter now!) with which I was recently diagnosed is
the realisation that I am forty nine in a few weeks and have achieved
precisely fsck-all in my life. I don't mean 'achieve' as in 'become
greatest living novelist' achieve, or 'make huge 'succes d'estime'
album' achieve; just the standard achievements of having done things at
all - even those things which one can look back on with a rueful smile
or a not-entirely-un-self-regarding wince of embarrassment.
I have lived a 'risk-averse' life (1) due to a combination of fear of
looking foolish, fear of making mistakes and fear of being punished for
either looking foolish, making mistakes or both; as a consequence I feel
that I have let all those chances slip by - even the chances to make
mistakes.
I have a couple of relatives in their early-mid-teens and, if they were
ever arsed enough to ask me, I would strongly counsel them to go out and
make their mistakes (so long as they are not catastrophic ones for them
or for others), because they will only get one go around the roundabout.
Generally speaking (I would advise them), and with some obvious
exceptions, it is far better to regret one or two of the things you
*have* done than to sit in middle age regretting all the things you did
*not* do. That sort of regret *lasts*.
(1) Apart from a few months leading up to my Finals, when I played Risk
nearly every night.
--
Regards
Nigel Stapley
<reply-to will bounce>
Free Lunch
wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:
Good to know.
>[2] as in "Brno" vs. "Brünn" in German (I don't know whether it has an
>English name as well)
I've never seen anything but Brno, and English is generally pretty
aggressive at inventing its own spelling of any town over 12 years old.
>[3] "Schober", though definitely German in origin, finds more Americans
>there, too, so I feel confident to dismiss America as the source of "Hrdy"
>despite seemingly contrary evidence.
Heh. If you think there are a lot of Central European names in America,
try Irish names. The vast majority of Irish names are found this side of
the Atlantic.
>[4] Stanislav, Marek, Jaroslav, Brnd, Yana, Jozef...
Looks good to me.
GaryN
news:Xns9EC4976809BAAg...@212.23.3.97:
Bloody serendipity again. Finding a book ("Hammers Slammers" by David
Drake) on the lowest shelf at the SO's place and then trying to stand up
again my bad leg gave way and I fell against the radiator - hard and at a
bad angle. Think I may have broken another rib or two and redislocated my
shoulder so it's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5vJGPpAqKk
again tomorrow.
I've been accident prone since I learned to walk but there are times when
it gets ridiculous. Thank any available deity that I have an understanding
SO who will half carry me when I need to move.
gary
Paul Jamison
"GaryN" <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9EC513B519050g...@212.23.3.97...
I'd tell you to just lie down in the middle of the floor and STAY THERE, but
the ceiling would probably fall on you. This sounds like rotten luck of
almost Jewish proportions, so Rabbi Sammy will have a Talk with the One
supposedly in charge; he's good at that.
Seriously, here's hoping that you recover quickly and that the accidents go
away.
Chris Zakes
Given a time machine, I don't think I'd want to be permanently dropped
anywhere except the present, but there *are* places I'd like to visit,
specifically late 16th century England.
But I'd settle for a time-travelling omniscope, I don't have to
physically be there.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
Robert Carnegie
you behave as though the purpose of your existence and anyone else's
in the universe is to enjoy it - the universe, that is, and possibly
also "anyone else" - however you see fit, but with due respect for the
right of others to do likewise and to not be bothered by you. Or
something like that.
Performing spectacular stunts may simply not be for you. On the other
hand, big steps that are liable to happen in any ordinary life may be
better taken than not.
Larry Moore
Agreed. What's the SF story about the misuse of the omniscope, though?
Lesley Weston
For one thing, modern people wanting to live in Olden Tymes usually
don't have a very clear idea as to which particular time and place they
mean. For another, they always imagine themselves as belonging to the
upper strata of society, for whom life has never been too bad, rather
than to the far larger lower orders, for whom life was Hell at all times
and places up to about 100 years ago. Although there's still plenty of
room for improvement in the lives of regular people, we now enjoy
conditions far superior to those even the aristocrats managed until
recently. In this culture, anyway.
Lesley.
--
This address is real, but to reach me use leswes att shaw dott ca
Lesley Weston
Still, I would like to know how various things turn out. A time machine
that let me pay short visits would be nice.
Lesley Weston
> On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:11:32 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused Larry Moore<shirleya...@gmail.com> to write:
>
>> On 11/4/11 11:40 AM, Hendrik Schober wrote:
<snip>
>>> Maybe. Yet, I wouldn't want to live in any society of the past, and see
>>> those wanting to base this mainly on romanticized ideas that have little
>>> grounding in the facts - which to me seems to indicate that hell lies
>>> the other way.
>>>
>>> Schobi
>>
>>
>> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
>> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>
> Given a time machine, I don't think I'd want to be permanently dropped
> anywhere except the present, but there *are* places I'd like to visit,
> specifically late 16th century England.
>
> But I'd settle for a time-travelling omniscope, I don't have to
> physically be there.
Yes that would do fine for seeing how things shall have gone. I'm just
curious.
Daibhid Ceannaideach
wrote:
> For one thing, modern people wanting to live in Olden Tymes usually
> don't have a very clear idea as to which particular time and place they
> mean. For another, they always imagine themselves as belonging to the
> upper strata of society, for whom life has never been too bad, rather
> than to the far larger lower orders, for whom life was Hell at all times
> and places up to about 100 years ago.
Someone once remarked to Isaac Asimov how nice it would be if one
lived in the old days when it was easy to get servants. Asimov's
response?
"It would be horrible. We'd be the servants."
Dave
Lesley Weston
It's not too late. I don't mean that you should rush out and climb
Everest or give away everything you have and live on whatever gets put
into your begging bowl while you work on achieving Nirvana. Or even that
you should start volunteering for charities, learning to play an
instrument, running marathons or whatever, unless something actually
appeals to you. I mean just that age doesn't really come into it;
anybody at any age can start to do things or reflect on the things they
have or have not done, and it counts just as much as sailing solo round
the world at fourteen or writing /Bonjour Tristesse/ in your teens.
And a life well-lived includes doing no harm, being liked by colleagues
and neighbours, writing entertaining posts on afp to amuse a few
friends, and other small achievements. I don't see the need for
grandiose gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
>
> I have a couple of relatives in their early-mid-teens and, if they were
> ever arsed enough to ask me, I would strongly counsel them to go out and
> make their mistakes (so long as they are not catastrophic ones for them
> or for others), because they will only get one go around the roundabout.
> Generally speaking (I would advise them), and with some obvious
> exceptions, it is far better to regret one or two of the things you
> *have* done than to sit in middle age regretting all the things you did
> *not* do. That sort of regret *lasts*.
All regrets last. The realisation that it's a one-way journey comes
hard, I agree, but it comes to us all eventually. It's not easy to deal
with, but it is possible to come to terms with it and just continue
enjoying the small things that are good about any life. I like St.
David's suggestion: 'Gwnewch y pethau bychain mewn bywyd' [1]. I know he
was talking about religion, but it's still a good basis for conducting
one's life, along with his other exhortations: "Keep the faith" (broadly
interpreted) and "Be joyful".
[1] I hope that's right? Wiki translates it as: 'Do the little things in
life'.
Robert Carnegie
"The Dead Past", Isaac Asimov, is one such.
Larry Moore
Tha's the bunny I was thinking of. Thanks.
Kevin Wells
Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
To next week and get the lottery numbers.
>Lesley.
>
--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
More flick able than a bogie during double maths
Kevin Wells
Daibhid Ceannaideach <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote:
Why settle for servants just get slaves instead.
>"It would be horrible. We'd be the servants."
Or in my case slave.
>
>Dave
--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bernard Peek
>> I have lived a 'risk-averse' life (1) due to a combination of fear of
>> looking foolish, fear of making mistakes and fear of being punished for
>> either looking foolish, making mistakes or both; as a consequence I feel
>> that I have let all those chances slip by - even the chances to make
>> mistakes.
>
> It's not too late. I don't mean that you should rush out and climb
> Everest or give away everything you have and live on whatever gets put
> into your begging bowl while you work on achieving Nirvana. Or even that
> you should start volunteering for charities, learning to play an
> instrument, running marathons or whatever, unless something actually
> appeals to you.
However I can speak from experience and suggest that you do try some of
these, or something similar. BUT it's more important for you to achieve
success than to solve world hunger singlehanded. You need success in
small things to protect against failure in big things.
I mean just that age doesn't really come into it;
> anybody at any age can start to do things or reflect on the things they
> have or have not done, and it counts just as much as sailing solo round
> the world at fourteen or writing /Bonjour Tristesse/ in your teens.
>
> And a life well-lived includes doing no harm, being liked by
> colleagues and neighbours, writing entertaining posts on afp to amuse a
> few friends, and other small achievements. I don't see the need for
> grandiose gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
You need to start small so that you can develop being successful into a
habit.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Nigel Stapley
> And a life well-lived includes doing no harm,
I seem to have managed that on the whole.
> being liked by
> colleagues and neighbours,
Ditto (more or less).
> writing entertaining posts on afp to amuse a
> few friends,
I think the jury's still out on that one.
> and other small achievements. I don't see the need for
> grandiose gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
Ah, but *I'm* not talking about grandiose gestures either. I just mean
the sort of 'normal' acheivements which most people manage in terms of
having a fulfilled, well-rounded life.
>
> All regrets last. The realisation that it's a one-way journey comes
> hard, I agree, but it comes to us all eventually. It's not easy to deal
> with, but it is possible to come to terms with it and just continue
> enjoying the small things that are good about any life.
Yes, but if you feel - as I do - that the phrase "never fulfilled his
early promise" was designed specifically with me in mind, it makes for a
particularly poisonous sense of disillusionment.
I wish that someone had taken me gently by the throat at the age of
about fifteen and said, "The world does *not* owe you a response, and
the Universe will not simply drop into your lap. You have to get out
there and *do* it!". Realising this to be the case when it's *far* too
late to do anything substantial in that direction is...galling.
> I like St.
> David's suggestion: 'Gwnewch y pethau bychain mewn bywyd' [1].
>
> [1] I hope that's right? Wiki translates it as: 'Do the little things in
> life'.
Spot on.
Nigel Stapley
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 19:35:10 +0100,
> Nigel Stapley <un...@judgemental.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> Lesley Weston wrote:
>>> and other small achievements. I don't see the need for
>>> grandiose gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
>> Ah, but *I'm* not talking about grandiose gestures either. I just mean
>> the sort of 'normal' acheivements which most people manage in terms of
>> having a fulfilled, well-rounded life.
>
>
>> Yes, but if you feel - as I do - that the phrase "never fulfilled his
>> early promise" was designed specifically with me in mind, it makes for a
>> particularly poisonous sense of disillusionment.
>
> already done something "grandiose" (to use Lesley's term). I
> mean, just how much early promise do you reckon you had, and what
> kind?
>
No, it's nothing to do with "grandiose", however it may be defined.
I was quite clearly academically gifted from a very young age, but this
led to me believing, as it were, my own publicity. So I coasted - and
there's only one direction in which you can do that. Hence the following
paragraph.
>
>> I wish that someone had taken me gently by the throat at the age of
>> about fifteen and said, "The world does *not* owe you a response, and
>> the Universe will not simply drop into your lap. You have to get out
>> there and *do* it!". Realising this to be the case when it's *far* too
>> late to do anything substantial in that direction is...galling.
>
> Why is it too late? Are there laws or something in your road? If
> not, then what's stopping you? Unless something worse than 34
> years of age separates You15 from You49, I honestly can't imagine
> what could stop you doing today whatever you could have done
> then. Enlighten us?
On the whole I'd rather not, because I don't want to conduct a therapy
session online when *I'm* the patient. All I can say regarding it being
'too late' are:
(i) Many of these things you really *do* have to be young (i.e. under
35) to do
(ii) Limited time left before the grave (1)
(iii) Indifferent health
(iv) Lack of self-confidence
(v) Inertia
(1) I don't want anyone to worry about my using this phrase - I'm merely
being florid.
Chris Zakes
caused Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> to write:
>On 11/4/11 10:51 PM, Chris Zakes wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:11:32 -0400, an orbital mind-control laser
>> caused Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> to write:
(snip)
>>> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
>>> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>>
>> Given a time machine, I don't think I'd want to be permanently dropped
>> anywhere except the present, but there *are* places I'd like to visit,
>> specifically late 16th century England.
>>
>> But I'd settle for a time-travelling omniscope, I don't have to
>> physically be there.
>>
>> -Chris Zakes
>> Texas
>
>Agreed. What's the SF story about the misuse of the omniscope, though?
Was that the one about the fellow trying to find out why/how
Stonehenge was built, so he sends a video recorder back in time to the
site of Stonehenge multiple times, only to discover that Stonehenge
was built to comemmorate this weird thing that kept appearing and
disappearing.
Or are you thinking of something else? I'm sure there's lots of
stories along those lines.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
Paul Jamison
"Kevin Wells" <kevin...@talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:c568d4c2...@talktalk.net...
> In message <io1mhl$gu4$2...@mud.stack.nl>
> Lesley Weston <brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 11-04-11 2:10 PM, GaryN wrote:
>>> Larry Moore<shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:o4idneYlO4HU2T7Q...@wightman.ca:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
>>>> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>>>>
>>>> "If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season
>>>> shall we wait and for what other time shall we look? "
>>>
>>> I go with Larry on this one. I'm in my mid forties and I've had the
>>> highs
>>> and the lows. But I have *LIVED* my life. I didn't just take up space
>>> like another good little drone, I hope I never will.
>>>
>>> I'm not in a position to change much of the 'Now' but the little I can
>>> change I do (charity stuff). I'm already an anachronism in my own time,
>>> why bother becoming even more so in the future?
>>>
>>> The past got on alright without me and the future can do the same.
>>
>>Still, I would like to know how various things turn out. A time machine
>>that let me pay short visits would be nice.
>>
> To next week and get the lottery numbers.
This suggests a unique payment system for a commercial time-machine venture.
Time travel will likely be expensive, but a customer may have to sign an
agreement that the company will receive a certain percentage of any lottery
winnings as payment for the journey. Okay, so not every traveler will want
to check the winning numbers, but some certainly will - enough that you can
rake in enough dough to cover the cost of the non-players.
Of course, this would all lead to a swift collapse of the economy, but then
you have a similar problem with the SRO crowd at Calvary for the
Crucifixion.
As for me, I can think of a few lovely ladies that I'd like another -
*ahem* - crack at. Beyond that, time travel I could take or leave.
Paul Jamison
"Larry Moore" <shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bJ-dnXxS-7VJ6DnQ...@wightman.ca...
There's one short story from 1947 that I'd recommend - "E For Effort" by TL
Sherred. It's about someone who invents a time viewer that he uses to make
really accurate historical movies, until the viewer is discovered and
exploited by a Hollywood producer. It's a short leap to making REAL
political documentaries, and it all ends in the collapse of government and
nuclear war. I don't think the story has been reprinted for a long time, but
it's stuck with me all these years.
Larry Moore
As you say, it's a reoccurring theme. Sounds like a grand tale though.
Larry Moore
Fame. Thanks, I'll see if I can find a copy.
Nigel Stapley
On a lighter note ("Laaaa!"), there's Harrison's "The Technicolor Time
Machine" (which is the only Harrison book I've ever found funny - "Bill
The Galactic Hero" isn't, despite what the OFIAH may think).
Lesley Weston
> On 12/04/11 16:29, Lesley Weston wrote:
>
>>> I have lived a 'risk-averse' life (1) due to a combination of fear of
>>> looking foolish, fear of making mistakes and fear of being punished for
>>> either looking foolish, making mistakes or both; as a consequence I feel
>>> that I have let all those chances slip by - even the chances to make
>>> mistakes.
>>
>> It's not too late. I don't mean that you should rush out and climb
>> Everest or give away everything you have and live on whatever gets put
>> into your begging bowl while you work on achieving Nirvana. Or even that
>> you should start volunteering for charities, learning to play an
>> instrument, running marathons or whatever, unless something actually
>> appeals to you.
>
> However I can speak from experience and suggest that you do try some of
> these, or something similar. BUT it's more important for you to achieve
> success than to solve world hunger singlehanded. You need success in
> small things to protect against failure in big things.
Yes, of course. Everybody should be trying new things all the time, but
only if they want to, and only things they think they'll enjoy. Loading
yourself down with yet more work because you feel you should, and then
having one more thing to worry about while getting no pleasure or sense
of achievement out of it isn't going to help.
>
>
> I mean just that age doesn't really come into it;
>> anybody at any age can start to do things or reflect on the things they
>> have or have not done, and it counts just as much as sailing solo round
>> the world at fourteen or writing /Bonjour Tristesse/ in your teens.
>>
>> And a life well-lived includes doing no harm, being liked by
>> colleagues and neighbours, writing entertaining posts on afp to amuse a
>> few friends, and other small achievements. I don't see the need for
>> grandiose gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
>
> You need to start small so that you can develop being successful into a
> habit.
>
Certainly! But it's more important to appreciate the small things in
their own right, not just as a preparation for being impressive later.
Lesley Weston
> Lesley Weston wrote:
>
>> And a life well-lived includes doing no harm,
>
> I seem to have managed that on the whole.
>
>> being liked by colleagues and neighbours,
>
> Ditto (more or less).
>
>> writing entertaining posts on afp to amuse a few friends,
>
> I think the jury's still out on that one.
Well this part of it is convinced, anyway.
>
>> and other small achievements. I don't see the need for grandiose
>> gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
>
> Ah, but *I'm* not talking about grandiose gestures either. I just mean
> the sort of 'normal' acheivements which most people manage in terms of
> having a fulfilled, well-rounded life.
I think everybody regrets making at least one important choice. But
there's always good stuff to think about as well.
>
>>
>> All regrets last. The realisation that it's a one-way journey comes
>> hard, I agree, but it comes to us all eventually. It's not easy to
>> deal with, but it is possible to come to terms with it and just
>> continue enjoying the small things that are good about any life.
>
> Yes, but if you feel - as I do - that the phrase "never fulfilled his
> early promise" was designed specifically with me in mind, it makes for a
> particularly poisonous sense of disillusionment.
The phrase sounds eerily familiar, except that it would be "her" not
"his". I think it might be true of quite a few people, especially here
where intelligence is high.
>
> I wish that someone had taken me gently by the throat at the age of
> about fifteen and said, "The world does *not* owe you a response, and
> the Universe will not simply drop into your lap. You have to get out
> there and *do* it!".
In my case, it was when I stopped coming top in all exams automatically.
I was fifteen too: It was during my O-level year, when I suddenly
discovered that being bright is no longer enough; you have to do at
least a little work as well. But all I did about it was feel sad and
angry - it still didn't occur to me to do the work. With predictable
results.
> Realising this to be the case when it's *far* too
> late to do anything substantial in that direction is...galling.
Is it though? Too late I mean. I know two different dentists who both
decided at around fifty that they needed to change direction, so both of
them started doing Ph.D.s. One is now an academic and well-respected in
his research field, and the other, having taken the prize for the best
Ph.D. thesis in any field at UBC that year, decided she preferred
dentistry after all. Her practice is flourishing, and she gained an
enormous amount of satisfaction just from doing it and having done it.
I realise that you are not a dentist, and you may not want to do a
Ph.D., but it wasn't too late for them to change their lives at around
your age.
Robert Carnegie
> Lesley Weston wrote:
> > And a life well-lived includes doing no harm,
>
> I seem to have managed that on the whole.
>
> > being liked by
> > colleagues and neighbours,
>
> Ditto (more or less).
>
> > writing entertaining posts on afp to amuse a
> > few friends,
>
> I think the jury's still out on that one.
>
> > and other small achievements. I don't see the need for
> > grandiose gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
>
> Ah, but *I'm* not talking about grandiose gestures either. I just mean
> the sort of 'normal' acheivements which most people manage in terms of
> having a fulfilled, well-rounded life.
Sex comes to mind. Number one on a list of one, really.
I mean we can't all be C. S. Lewis...
Larry Moore
Why does St Augustine come to mind here? :-)
Kevin Wells
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
We could if we changed our names through deed poll.
--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
Real Stupidity beat Artificial Intelligence 11 times out of 10.
Lewis
> On 13/4/11 11:21 AM, Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> On Apr 12, 7:35 pm, Nigel Stapley <u...@judgemental.plus.com> wrote:
>>> Lesley Weston wrote:
>>>> And a life well-lived includes doing no harm,
>>>
>>> I seem to have managed that on the whole.
>>>
>>>> being liked by
>>>> colleagues and neighbours,
>>>
>>> Ditto (more or less).
>>>
>>>> writing entertaining posts on afp to amuse a
>>>> few friends,
>>>
>>> I think the jury's still out on that one.
>>>
>>>> and other small achievements. I don't see the need for
>>>> grandiose gestures, whether they succeed or fail.
>>>
>>> Ah, but *I'm* not talking about grandiose gestures either. I just mean
>>> the sort of 'normal' acheivements which most people manage in terms of
>>> having a fulfilled, well-rounded life.
>>
>> Sex comes to mind. Number one on a list of one, really.
>>
>> I mean we can't all be C. S. Lewis...
>
> Why does St Augustine come to mind here? :-)
Is he the guy with the sheep?
--
this is not a signture
Lewis
> I was quite clearly academically gifted from a very young age, but this
> led to me believing, as it were, my own publicity. So I coasted - and
> there's only one direction in which you can do that. Hence the following paragraph.
Been there, done that, have an extensive collection of name badges and hair
eta to prove it too.
I tell my kids now, especially the really brilliant one, "Being smart is
like being tall. Sure, you can reach the top shelves of the pantry, but you
aren't automatically an NBA star."
Wish someone had said that to me a couple thousands times growing up.
GaryN
news:IcCdnQAQg_-d6j7Q...@brightview.co.uk:
> GaryN wrote:
>> Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:o4idneYlO4HU2T7Q...@wightman.ca:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
>>> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>>>
>>> "If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other
>>> season shall we wait and for what other time shall we look? "
>>
>> I go with Larry on this one. I'm in my mid forties and I've had the
>> highs and the lows. But I have *LIVED* my life. I didn't just take
>> up space like another good little drone, I hope I never will.
>>
> I'm slightly wary of commenting here, if only because it can be of
> little interest to anyone and it also gives away rather more about
> myself than perhaps is wise.
>
> One of the contributory factors to the clinical Depression (see,
> Lesley? Using the capital letter now!) with which I was recently
> diagnosed is the realisation that I am forty nine in a few weeks and
> have achieved precisely fsck-all in my life. I don't mean 'achieve' as
> in 'become greatest living novelist' achieve, or 'make huge 'succes
> d'estime' album' achieve; just the standard achievements of having
> done things at all - even those things which one can look back on with
> a rueful smile or a not-entirely-un-self-regarding wince of
> embarrassment.
>
> I have lived a 'risk-averse' life (1) due to a combination of fear of
> looking foolish, fear of making mistakes and fear of being punished
> for either looking foolish, making mistakes or both; as a consequence
> I feel that I have let all those chances slip by - even the chances to
> make mistakes.
>
> I have a couple of relatives in their early-mid-teens and, if they
> were ever arsed enough to ask me, I would strongly counsel them to go
> out and make their mistakes (so long as they are not catastrophic ones
> for them or for others), because they will only get one go around the
> roundabout. Generally speaking (I would advise them), and with some
> obvious exceptions, it is far better to regret one or two of the
> things you *have* done than to sit in middle age regretting all the
> things you did *not* do. That sort of regret *lasts*.
>
> (1) Apart from a few months leading up to my Finals, when I played
> Risk nearly every night.
>
>
>
Actually it is of interest.
I have done some bloody stupid things one of which might class as
heroism, saving a life, although I wouldn't do it again[1]. I've made
many mistakes but I've also had a lot of victories. I've raised a lot
of money for various charities but I've also been arrested more times
than I care to remember.
I don't regret the things I haven't done because if I wanted to do them
then I would have. I've never felt the need to say "Oh yes, when I was
in Sri Lanka..." to impress people, there's enough interesting stuff in
the UK for me.
I also don't regret the things I have done, foolish,stupid or idiotic
though they may have been at times. I did what I did because I wanted
to.[2]
The main thing is to enjoy life in your own way. You only get one go at
it (Sorry-atheist). If you don't want to climb mountains then don't.
Not everyone has the same attitude towards life. Some people want to
have kids and settle down, some want to get shedloads of money, some
like me are just happy to go with the flow and see what happens.
It's your bloody life, live it the way *you* want
gary
P.S. I've also been diagnosed with severe clinical depression so you're
not alone.
[1]Actually I probably would try but with all the broken bits I'm not as
fit as I used to be and diving into a canal in sub-zero temperatures
would probably kill *me* these days.
[2]Except for shooting 2 dogs that were worrying sheep. I had to but I
didn't want to.
--
"Send Lawyers, Guns and Money. The shit has hit the fan"
Warren Zevon
GaryN
news:io462j$1qfm$1...@mud.stack.nl:
> On 11-04-12 10:26 AM, Bernard Peek wrote:
<snip>
>> You need to start small so that you can develop being successful into
>> a habit.
>>
> Certainly! But it's more important to appreciate the small things in
> their own right, not just as a preparation for being impressive later.
>
> Lesley.
Working it out I've helped raise about £6K a year for charity for the
last 20 years, helped fund the training of 3 guide dogs and I look after
the "Wild Patch" in the local churchyard. I don't expect anyone to be
impressed or, frankly, even to notice. But *I* know I've done it.
So I've never swum with dolphins, although I did trip over a seal once
in Cornwall, I've never sailed single handed around the world.
Because I don't want to.
Let those who wish to do those things, I'll just carry on trundling
through life doing what I want to do[1], not what other people think I
should do.
Selfish attitude? Damn right! It's my life and I'll do what I want
with it, impressing people is right down there with the Benthic Angler
Fish.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglerfish
gary
[1]Drinking too much, smoking too much, trying to get enough sex and
riding motorcycles.
GaryN
news:2142417615324472663.8...@news.eternal-
september.o
rg:
OTOH you can have too much of it. I'm highly intelligent, far more so
than my sister. I was pressured with high expectations, particularly
after some, although I say it myself, spectacular exam results. She was
just expected to pass in a mediocre manner and go and be a secretary
before becoming a housewife.
Guess which one of us is now a highly succesful financial advisor with a
string of rental properties and which one is currently an unemployed
alcoholic. You can have 3 guesses and the first two don't count..:-)
Pushing intelligent kids too hard can backfire in a spectacular manner,
to everyones detriment.
gary
GaryN
news:2034877663324472460.5...@news.eternal-
september.o
rg:
Nah, that was Handel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3YYsKO6YAA
"We like sheep.
We like sheep"
Repeat ad infinitum or until someone can remember the next line.
GaryN
news:io2ic1$dbq$1...@dont-email.me:
Didn't Harry Harrison write a short story called "The Road To Golgotha"?
Wherein time travelling tourists go back to watch the crucifiction and
it turns out that the mob baying for his death are all from the future.
I can't remember which anthology it's in and as previously mentioned
trying to find it might take days. I remember reading it though.
GaryN
> In message
> <c0e5c995-0cd9-42ce...@l30g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>
> Daibhid Ceannaideach <daibhidc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 12, 3:09 pm, Lesley Weston <brightly_coloured_b...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> For one thing, modern people wanting to live in Olden Tymes usually
>>> don't have a very clear idea as to which particular time and place
>>> they mean. For another, they always imagine themselves as belonging
>>> to the upper strata of society, for whom life has never been too
>>> bad, rather than to the far larger lower orders, for whom life was
>>> Hell at all times and places up to about 100 years ago.
>>
>>Someone once remarked to Isaac Asimov how nice it would be if one
>>lived in the old days when it was easy to get servants. Asimov's
>>response?
>
> Why settle for servants just get slaves instead.
>
>>"It would be horrible. We'd be the servants."
>
> Or in my case slave.
>>
>>Dave
>
>
I've always thought that Chrigton's "Timeline" was about as well
researched and written as any book about time travel to the Middle Ages
in Europe. Obviously it's not 100% accurate but it does have a ring of
authenticity about it[1].
gary
[1]The book, most emphatically *not* the crappy film.
Carol Hague
> Didn't Harry Harrison write a short story called "The Road To Golgotha"?
> Wherein time travelling tourists go back to watch the crucifiction and
> it turns out that the mob baying for his death are all from the future.
> I can't remember which anthology it's in and as previously mentioned
> trying to find it might take days. I remember reading it though.
My memory, such as it is, was telling me that the title was "Let's Go To
Golgotha" so I googled that, and apparently that's the story you
describe, and tis by one Gary Kilworth and in a collection of the same
title as the story. If Wikipedia is to be believed anyway, which isn't,
I realise, always the case.
--
Carol. www.mullimages.com
"This might as well say "bing tiddle tiddle bong".
It's complete gibberish," - Rodney McKay, Stargate: Atlantis
GaryN
news:1jzpzsb.e5t35p1d5wok2N%ca...@wrhpv.com:
> GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>
>> Didn't Harry Harrison write a short story called "The Road To
>> Golgotha"? Wherein time travelling tourists go back to watch the
>> crucifiction and it turns out that the mob baying for his death are
>> all from the future. I can't remember which anthology it's in and as
>> previously mentioned trying to find it might take days. I remember
>> reading it though.
>
> My memory, such as it is, was telling me that the title was "Let's Go
> To Golgotha" so I googled that, and apparently that's the story you
> describe, and tis by one Gary Kilworth and in a collection of the same
> title as the story. If Wikipedia is to be believed anyway, which
> isn't, I realise, always the case.
>
>
My memory isn't what it used to be either, I know the files are in there
- I just can't always access them when I want to (bit like whinedoze
really). I dare say that you probably know the feeling of waking up at
2am thinking "Now that's what I was trying to remember" and then can't
remember *why*. I've accepted that I'm getting older and years of sex
(not enough), drugs (too many) and Rock'n'Roll (far too much at high
volume) have taken their toll.
It's nice to know that I was at least partially accurate and am not a
complete fruitloop.
Thanks Carol.
Carol Hague
> ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague) wrote in
> news:1jzpzsb.e5t35p1d5wok2N%ca...@wrhpv.com:
>
> > GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Didn't Harry Harrison write a short story called "The Road To
> >> Golgotha"? Wherein time travelling tourists go back to watch the
> >> crucifiction and it turns out that the mob baying for his death are
> >> all from the future. I can't remember which anthology it's in and as
> >> previously mentioned trying to find it might take days. I remember
> >> reading it though.
> >
> > My memory, such as it is, was telling me that the title was "Let's Go
> > To Golgotha" so I googled that, and apparently that's the story you
> > describe, and tis by one Gary Kilworth and in a collection of the same
> > title as the story. If Wikipedia is to be believed anyway, which
> > isn't, I realise, always the case.
> >
> >
>
> My memory isn't what it used to be either, I know the files are in there
> - I just can't always access them when I want to (bit like whinedoze
> really).
I get that a huge amount with words - I'll be merrily burbling along and
realise I know exactly the *shape* of the word I want but not the actual
syllables...
>I dare say that you probably know the feeling of waking up at
> 2am thinking "Now that's what I was trying to remember" and then can't
> remember *why*.
Yes, that too :-)
>I've accepted that I'm getting older and years of sex
> (not enough), drugs (too many) and Rock'n'Roll (far too much at high
> volume) have taken their toll.
Whereas I don't even have that as an excuse :-)
> It's nice to know that I was at least partially accurate and am not a
> complete fruitloop.
If you're not a complete fruitloop, whatever are you doing on afp?
[grins, ducks and meanders gently away, being unsuited to running]
I, on the other hand can be secure in the knowledge that I can never be
a complete idiot, since my appendix was removed many moons ago.
>
> Thanks Carol.
You're welcome. Made a nice change from poking the folk in charge of our
domain registration who then didn't get it registered.
Nigel Stapley
>
> So I've never swum with dolphins,
I like Bill Bailey's take on those "100 Things To Do Before You
Die"-type things:
"I'd want to put some interesting ones in there, "Number 67: lunge
wildly at the pope"."
And someone actually did:
Nigel Stapley
> GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>
>> ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague) wrote in
>> news:1jzpzsb.e5t35p1d5wok2N%ca...@wrhpv.com:
>>
>>> GaryN <ga...@scaryriders.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Didn't Harry Harrison write a short story called "The Road To
>>>> Golgotha"? Wherein time travelling tourists go back to watch the
>>>> crucifiction and it turns out that the mob baying for his death are
>>>> all from the future. I can't remember which anthology it's in and as
>>>> previously mentioned trying to find it might take days. I remember
>>>> reading it though.
>>> My memory, such as it is, was telling me that the title was "Let's Go
>>> To Golgotha" so I googled that, and apparently that's the story you
>>> describe, and tis by one Gary Kilworth and in a collection of the same
>>> title as the story. If Wikipedia is to be believed anyway, which
>>> isn't, I realise, always the case.
>>>
>>>
>> My memory isn't what it used to be either, I know the files are in there
>> - I just can't always access them when I want to (bit like whinedoze
>> really).
>
> I get that a huge amount with words - I'll be merrily burbling along and
> realise I know exactly the *shape* of the word I want but not the actual
> syllables...
>
Me t...erm....as well.
GaryN
> GaryN wrote:
>
>>
>> So I've never swum with dolphins,
>
> I like Bill Bailey's take on those "100 Things To Do Before You
> Die"-type things:
>
> "I'd want to put some interesting ones in there, "Number 67: lunge
> wildly at the pope"."
>
> And someone actually did:
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1238201/Pope-
Benedict
> -XVI-knocked-floor-mentally-unstable-woman-jumped-barrier-Midnight-
Mass
> .html
>
So what do we do? Do we hang Lily, the barmaid, for daring to serve
deep fried mushrooms?
Do we draw and quater Sara, the landlady, for making Spring Greens
vegetable soup?
Rejoin the real world and let the paranoid morons crawl back into their
holes, without us.
gary
Daibhid Ceanaideach
> OTOH you can have too much of it. I'm highly intelligent, far more so
> than my sister. I was pressured with high expectations, particularly
> after some, although I say it myself, spectacular exam results. She
> was just expected to pass in a mediocre manner and go and be a
> secretary before becoming a housewife.
>
> Guess which one of us is now a highly succesful financial advisor with
> a string of rental properties and which one is currently an unemployed
> alcoholic. You can have 3 guesses and the first two don't count..:-)
Sometimes I think that if I were a bit smarter, I wouldn't have let
anyone at school realise how smart I was. I always suspected my sister
*was* that smart, which is why her results were determinedly average.
(She slipped up once, though, and was almost put in an advanced English
class.)
--
Dave
It's all about the triumph of intellect and romance
over brute force and cynicism.
GaryN
news:Xns9EC7BD1E4A28Cda...@130.133.4.11:
S was never that careless but she's a fully qualified financial advisor,
plumber, electrician, plasterer, and I think she's reasonably good at
bricklaying. I'm equally qualified in those things, still better than
her at laying concrete and tiling roofs but it's close.
OTOH she can sail a racing yacht but I can fly a glider.
Not sibling rivalry, just different interests. I could probably learn
to sail 'Scamp' same as she could learn to fly 'Amelia'. Each to their
own.
The good news is that her brain scan on Tuesday showed no signs of
malignancy - the sigh of relief was probably heard around the world (we
were seriously worried). She may be a completely bad tempered bitch
that I argue with as often as I agree with but she's my sister.
Anyone who doesn't understand that should resign from the human race.
Larry Moore
AFAIK not - "Give me chastity and continence, but not yet"
SteveD
wrote:
>Well, it mightn't be any consolation, but here are just a few of
>the occupations of US (it's from the US site anyway) Mensa
>members (98th %ile or better in a standard IQ test to qualify):
>
>Barber
>Lawyer
>Realtor
>CEO
>Musician
>Rocket scientist
>Clergy
>Nurse
>Taxi driver
>Engineer
>Police officer
>Teacher
>Homemaker
>Postal worker
>Interpreter
>Database administrator
>Veterinarian
>Logger
I'm not surprised. Intelligent people might well pursue a job with any of
the following characteristics:
- easy to do; gives them time to think
- is a real challenge; gives them a reason to get up in the morning
- pays the bills; there are more important things in the world to think
about than careers
Brainboxes aren't all college professors, mad scientists, and shadowy
masterminds. They have the same mix of personal preferences as anyone.
-SteveD
SteveD
>I get that a huge amount with words - I'll be merrily burbling along and
>realise I know exactly the *shape* of the word I want but not the actual
>syllables...
Yup. I'll reach for a word, then realise I know the syllables, the
cadence, synonyms and antonyms, at least some of the letters, and what
part of language it is, but not the actual word itself.
Then I have to go look it up. Grr.
-SteveD
GaryN
<snip>
> I, on the other hand can be secure in the knowledge that I can never
> be a complete idiot, since my appendix was removed many moons ago.
I'm an enhanced idiot on account of the 16" of titanium and stainless
steel screws holding my leg together. The spit and other peoples
prayers (atheist remember) just help a bit.
The current broken ribs just make things a little less comfortable.
Still a (frequently) bleeding idiot though...:-)
Lewis
> Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:2142417615324472663.8...@news.eternal-
> september.o
> rg:
>
>> Nigel Stapley <un...@judgemental.plus.com> wrote:
>>> I was quite clearly academically gifted from a very young age, but
>>> this led to me believing, as it were, my own publicity. So I coasted
>>> - and there's only one direction in which you can do that. Hence the
>>> following paragraph.
>>
>> Been there, done that, have an extensive collection of name badges and
>> hair eta to prove it too.
>>
>> I tell my kids now, especially the really brilliant one, "Being smart
>> is like being tall. Sure, you can reach the top shelves of the pantry,
>> but you aren't automatically an NBA star."
>>
>> Wish someone had said that to me a couple thousands times growing up.
>>
>
> OTOH you can have too much of it. I'm highly intelligent, far more so
> than my sister. I was pressured with high expectations, particularly
> after some, although I say it myself, spectacular exam results. She was
> just expected to pass in a mediocre manner and go and be a secretary
> before becoming a housewife.
Being told your gifts don't make you automatically successfull is not
'pushing' though.
GaryN
news:1495553568324537374.3...@news.eternal-
september.o
rg:
Perhaps you misunderstand me. I was expected to become something that I
didn't necessarily want to be, my sister wasn't expected to do anything
much. I rebelled, which I'm not sorry about, she also rebelled against
what was expected of her. She chose her own path, I chose mine. We've
never really talked about it and see no reason to start now. We don't
particularly like each other[1] but we're frostily polite when the
occasion requires.
Neither of us is right or wrong, just different.
gary
[1]We don't hate each other - we just don't bother, our lives don't
touch.
Peggy Scissons
So Monty Python's "Search for the Holy Grail" is NOT an accurate depiction
of the Middle Ages?
Oh darn.
Ms Smee
Carol Hague
> ca...@wrhpv.com (Carol Hague) wrote in
> news:1jzq3p3.bxigq5gbf1hcN%ca...@wrhpv.com:
>
> <snip>
> > I, on the other hand can be secure in the knowledge that I can never
> > be a complete idiot, since my appendix was removed many moons ago.
>
> I'm an enhanced idiot on account of the 16" of titanium and stainless
> steel screws holding my leg together. The spit and other peoples
> prayers (atheist remember) just help a bit.
>
> The current broken ribs just make things a little less comfortable.
> Still a (frequently) bleeding idiot though...:-)
I don't suppose the broken ribs help with the whole Not Falling Over
process either :-(
I really hope things will improve for you soon, both on the legal and
injury fronts. I'd say you deserve a break, but it sounds as though
you've already had more of those than you really wanted.
Carol Hague
:-)
And then there are the times when I'm reaching up on the shelf for one
word and get an entirely different one for no apparent wardrobe.
Carol Hague
Which can be quite hard if you don''t have enough clues. Or worse, the
wrong ones.
ppint. at pplay
Larry Moore <shirleya...@gmail.com> provided a pin to burst bubbles:
>>>>Sex comes to mind. Number one on a list of one, really.
>>>>I mean we can't all be C. S. Lewis...
>>>Why does St Augustine come to mind here? :-)
>>
>>Is he the guy with the sheep?
>
>AFAIK not - "Give me chastity and continence, but not yet"
- ah; so he's the one that lusted after, but lacked, unchaste,
incontinent sheep...
- no?
- or was it hippos?
- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"never trust a man with shaved buttocks"
- jim darby, 2/9/96 (9/2/96 for merkins)
Brian Howlett
> So Monty Python's "Search for the Holy Grail" is NOT an accurate
> depiction of the Middle Ages?
Oh. no. For an accurate depiction of life in Merrie Olde Englande you
need Terry Gilliam's "Jabberwocky".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076221/
> Oh darn.
Look! A swearie word! My turn!
Poot.
Take that!
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
---------------------------------------------------------
Q. What's the difference between an enzyme and a hormone?
A. You can't hear an enzyme...
Larry Moore
> On 11-04-11 2:10 PM, GaryN wrote:
>> Larry Moore<shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:o4idneYlO4HU2T7Q...@wightman.ca:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
>>> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>>>
>>> "If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season
>>> shall we wait and for what other time shall we look? "
>>
>> I go with Larry on this one. I'm in my mid forties and I've had the
>> highs
>> and the lows. But I have *LIVED* my life. I didn't just take up space
>> like another good little drone, I hope I never will.
>>
>> I'm not in a position to change much of the 'Now' but the little I can
>> change I do (charity stuff). I'm already an anachronism in my own time,
>> why bother becoming even more so in the future?
>>
>> The past got on alright without me and the future can do the same.
>
> Still, I would like to know how various things turn out. A time machine
> that let me pay short visits would be nice.
>
> Lesley.
>
You would visit one branch on the probability bush, at best. A possible
great grand daughter, not a certain great grand daughter, say.
I mind a radio program that I heard on the Rogers - an author is
intrigued by stories of seances and messages from 'the other side' and
investigates. He finds a few examples that he cannot dismiss where the
respondents give clear and accurate information about past situations
that would not be available to the medium. On further investigation, the
respondent could have existed (the family, city and situation are good,)
but the actual respondent was not historical. The author comes to the
conclusion that the respondent is from the cloud of other possible
histories.
I'm not sure how, on seeing/visiting a past that one could establish
that it was our unique past.
GaryN
news:ea623cc4...@bhowlett.plus.net:
> On 15 Apr, Peggy Scissons wrote:
>
>> So Monty Python's "Search for the Holy Grail" is NOT an accurate
>> depiction of the Middle Ages?
>
> Oh. no. For an accurate depiction of life in Merrie Olde Englande you
> need Terry Gilliam's "Jabberwocky".
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076221/
>
>> Oh darn.
>
> Look! A swearie word! My turn!
>
> Poot.
>
> Take that!
There I was thinking that 'Robin Hood - Men in Tights' was the
definitive depiction of life at the time.
I'll see your Poot and raise you a "Garn, Buggrit, Millenium Hand and
Shrimp"..:-)
gary
Lesley Weston
> On 12/4/11 10:11 AM, Lesley Weston wrote:
>> On 11-04-11 2:10 PM, GaryN wrote:
>>> Larry Moore<shirleya...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:o4idneYlO4HU2T7Q...@wightman.ca:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> OTOH, given a time machine , there's nowhen in the future (beyond my
>>>> natural lifespan,) that I'd want to be dropped either.
>>>>
>>>> "If we are not happy and joyous at this season, for what other season
>>>> shall we wait and for what other time shall we look? "
>>>
>>> I go with Larry on this one. I'm in my mid forties and I've had the
>>> highs
>>> and the lows. But I have *LIVED* my life. I didn't just take up space
>>> like another good little drone, I hope I never will.
>>>
>>> I'm not in a position to change much of the 'Now' but the little I can
>>> change I do (charity stuff). I'm already an anachronism in my own time,
>>> why bother becoming even more so in the future?
>>>
>>> The past got on alright without me and the future can do the same.
>>
>> Still, I would like to know how various things turn out. A time machine
>> that let me pay short visits would be nice.
>>
>> Lesley.
>>
>
> You would visit one branch on the probability bush, at best. A possible
> great grand daughter, not a certain great grand daughter, say.
Not necessarily; I think the jury is still out on that one, and not
likely to reach a definite conclusion ever - how could it?
>
> I mind a radio program that I heard on the Rogers - an author is
> intrigued by stories of seances and messages from 'the other side' and
> investigates. He finds a few examples that he cannot dismiss where the
> respondents give clear and accurate information about past situations
> that would not be available to the medium. On further investigation, the
> respondent could have existed (the family, city and situation are good,)
> but the actual respondent was not historical. The author comes to the
> conclusion that the respondent is from the cloud of other possible
> histories.
> I'm not sure how, on seeing/visiting a past that one could establish
> that it was our unique past.
>
I'm not really interested in visiting the past, unique or otherwise.
There are always accounts of what happened, and you can pick your way
through them to build a plausible picture. Besides, there's all the
casual cruelty, all the starving children begging and so forth, and even
the people who consider themselves fortunate suffering horrible diseases
with no treatment and expecting to lose at least half their children as
a matter of course.
And present-day smells are bad enough even with modern plumbing and
food storage, and even though most people shower or whatever daily and
it seems to be only (some) old women who wear perfume now. What would it
be like to a modern nose when nobody washed and everybody wore plenty of
perfume instead?
It's the future I want to see, purely out of curiosity. I would like to
know whether we really do eradicate all diseases including the symptoms
of aging, just how much we achieve when everybody gets adequate
nutrition and healthcare throughout life, what happens on the music
scene and in drama, whether our greening efforts do actually affect
anything, whether we ever do produce an FTL drive, and so on.
Lesley.
--
This address is real, but to reach me use leswes att shaw dott ca
GaryN
news:io9mst$1jmr$1...@mud.stack.nl:
<snip>
>>
> I'm not really interested in visiting the past, unique or otherwise.
> There are always accounts of what happened, and you can pick your way
> through them to build a plausible picture.
Not really - history is written by the winners. Plausible is not the
same as accurate.
> Besides, there's all the
> casual cruelty, all the starving children begging and so forth, and
> even the people who consider themselves fortunate suffering horrible
> diseases with no treatment and expecting to lose at least half their
> children as a matter of course.
This is different to modern day India, Africa and Asia exactly how?
> And present-day smells are bad enough even with modern plumbing
> and food storage, and even though most people shower or whatever
> daily
Do they? I don't. Couple of times a week is quite sufficient, if I can
be bothered. Same as washing your hair - leave it for a while and it
cleans itself. Don't think I've even taken off the clothes I'm
currently wearing in the past week. Nobody has been holding their nose
and moving in the direction of 'away'
> it seems to be only (some) old women who wear perfume now. What would
> it be like to a modern nose when nobody washed and everybody wore
> plenty of perfume instead?
Extremely bloody irritating. I detest people who walk around stinking
of whatever Yves Saint Laurent says is this month's fragrance. I have
actually asked for a different table in a restaurant because the stench
of the perfume from the woman behind me was so overpowering. I'd rather
smell good honest sweat from someone who's actually done a days work.
>It's the future I want to see, purely out of curiosity. I would
> like to know whether we really do eradicate all diseases including the
> symptoms of aging,
You can't prevent getting old, you can use various methods for
rejuvenation but you still get old. I'll take my 3 score and ten (if I
make it that far).
>just how much we achieve when everybody gets
> adequate nutrition and healthcare throughout life,
We achieve far too many people on a planet that can't support them. Why
the f**k are people so unable to understand that?
> what happens on the
> music scene and in drama,
Have you ever read 'The Forever War' by Joe Haldeman?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War
Try that one for what it's like to travel forward in time. You go and
fight for a couple of subjective years, then return to a society that
isn't the one you left and which you don't even recognise. So you
reenlist to fight again. Repeat ad infinitum until you no longer know
what the hell you're fighting for because it's no longer your society,
possibly not even your race, anymore.
>whether our greening efforts do actually
> affect anything, whether we ever do produce an FTL drive, and so on.
The theory and tech is there but it'll never happen. Just accept that
we're going to live and die on a small blue/green planet in a backwater
of the galaxy.
So live as well as you can and die when the time is right.
Sorry to be downbeat but as an engineer I'm a realist - we don't need
alien invasions or whatever, the human race is quite capable of fucking
itself over without outside assistance.
Nigel Stapley
> Same as washing your hair - leave it for a while and it
> cleans itself.
Having suffered from itchy scalp for years, about a month and a half ago
I started washing my hair in just water - no shampoo (or *real* poo for
that matter), no soap; just warm water and a scalp massage to get the
dirt/oil out, and then cold water to rinse.
My hair has gone very greasy, but I think this could work in the long term.
> I detest people who walk around stinking
> of whatever Yves Saint Laurent says is this month's fragrance. I have
> actually asked for a different table in a restaurant because the stench
> of the perfume from the woman behind me was so overpowering.
Hear, hear! Perfume sets off a reaction in me akin to hay fever (which
is odd, 'cos I don't suffer from hay fever).
>
> You can't prevent getting old, you can use various methods for
> rejuvenation but you still get old. I'll take my 3 score and ten (if I
> make it that far).
One of my favourite stories is one of Somerset Maugham at a dinner
party. His hostess noted that he didn't seem to be eating very much.
Maugham said that he was dieting "to keep his youth".
"Oh Willy," replied his hostess, "why didn't you say so? You could have
brought him with you."
Peggy Scissons
> Brian Howlett <news-s...@brianhowlett.me.uk> wrote in
> news:ea623cc4...@bhowlett.plus.net:
>
>> On 15 Apr, Peggy Scissons wrote:
>>
>>> So Monty Python's "Search for the Holy Grail" is NOT an accurate
>>> depiction of the Middle Ages?
>>
>> Oh. no. For an accurate depiction of life in Merrie Olde Englande you
>> need Terry Gilliam's "Jabberwocky".
>>
>> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076221/
>>
>>> Oh darn.
>>
>> Look! A swearie word! My turn!
>>
>> Poot.
>>
>> Take that!
>
> There I was thinking that 'Robin Hood - Men in Tights' was the
> definitive depiction of life at the time.
>
> I'll see your Poot and raise you a "Garn, Buggrit, Millenium Hand and
> Shrimp"..:-)
>
> gary
Oh I dunno, I kinda liked Kevin Costner's Robin Hood too. Surely THAT was
accurate, being made in Hollyweird and all. Everyone knows Hollyweird
ALWAYS gets it right.
Ms Smee
Hendrik Schober
> [...]
>> [2] as in "Brno" vs. "Brünn" in German (I don't know whether it has an
>> English name as well)
>
> I've never seen anything but Brno, and English is generally pretty
> aggressive at inventing its own spelling of any town over 12 years old.
Yeah, but Germans used to live in that area, English didn't. That's probably
why there are German names for many smaller and bigger villages, towns, and
cities along the Polish-Czech border (and of course along the German-Czech
and German-Polish borders), but no English names.
> [...]
Schobi
Free Lunch
wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:
>On 12.04.2011 01:57, Free Lunch wrote:
>> [...]
>>> [2] as in "Brno" vs. "Brünn" in German (I don't know whether it has an
>>> English name as well)
>>
>> I've never seen anything but Brno, and English is generally pretty
>> aggressive at inventing its own spelling of any town over 12 years old.
>
>Yeah, but Germans used to live in that area,
And in Russia.
Did German change the names to Gdansk or Kaliningrad or are both still
generally known by their traditional names?
>English didn't. That's probably
>why there are German names for many smaller and bigger villages, towns, and
>cities along the Polish-Czech border (and of course along the German-Czech
>and German-Polish borders), but no English names.
I understand that cities are generally called by their local names if no
one in another language has invented a new name that is more friendly to
that language. English has own name or spelling for Moscow, Prague,
Warsaw, Hanover, Munich, Cologne (well, it doesn't use the German name)
and others and cheerfully pronounces Budapest, among others, the way it
likes. Brun would be the most likely anglicization of Brno, but I've
never seen it.
>> [...]
>
>Schobi
Hendrik Schober
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:49:17 +0200, Hendrik Schober<spam...@gmx.de>
> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:
>
>> On 12.04.2011 01:57, Free Lunch wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>> [2] as in "Brno" vs. "Brünn" in German (I don't know whether it has an
>>>> English name as well)
>>>
>>> I've never seen anything but Brno, and English is generally pretty
>>> aggressive at inventing its own spelling of any town over 12 years old.
>>
>> Yeah, but Germans used to live in that area,
>
> And in Russia.
And in Poland. And in Romania. And in Ukraine. (And probably more that I
forgot to think of.) All of which I omitted, because they seemed irrelevant.
> Did German change the names to Gdansk or Kaliningrad or are both still
> generally known by their traditional names?
Kaliningrad used to be a German city by the name "Königsberg". I think it's
now mostly called by its Russian name. Gdansk, I think, we mostly calle by
its German name "Danzig".
>> English didn't. That's probably
>> why there are German names for many smaller and bigger villages, towns, and
>> cities along the Polish-Czech border (and of course along the German-Czech
>> and German-Polish borders), but no English names.
>
> I understand that cities are generally called by their local names if no
> one in another language has invented a new name that is more friendly to
> that language. English has own name or spelling for Moscow, Prague,
> Warsaw, Hanover, Munich, Cologne (well, it doesn't use the German name)
> and others and cheerfully pronounces Budapest, among others, the way it
> likes. Brun would be the most likely anglicization of Brno, but I've
> never seen it.
Basically, this is what all cultures do. For some names, Cologne, the German
name probably farer from the original name (Colonia) than the English one
is. For others, our common Germanic roots shine through: Moscow is
pronounced pretty much like the German Moskau, both quite far from the
Russian Moskva.
(Note that in German, Hanover has just one more "n" than your Hanover.)
Schobi
Hendrik Schober
> [...]
> Kaliningrad used to be a German city by the name "Königsberg". I think it's
> now mostly called by its Russian name. Gdansk, I think, we mostly calle by
> its German name "Danzig".
>
>>> English didn't. That's probably
>>> why there are German names for many smaller and bigger villages, towns, and
>>> cities along the Polish-Czech border (and of course along the German-Czech
>>> and German-Polish borders), but no English names.
>>
>
> Basically, this is what all cultures do. For some names, Cologne, the German
> name probably farer from the original name (Colonia) than the English one
> is. For others, our common Germanic roots shine through: Moscow is
> pronounced pretty much like the German Moskau, both quite far from the
> Russian Moskva.
> (Note that in German, Hanover has just one more "n" than your Hanover.)
Oh boy. That reads like Yoda wrote it while he was drunk. I apologize.
Schobi
Chris Zakes
No, no. Errol Flynn is the definitive Robin Hood. Since it was made
closer to the actual time period, the costuming is so much more
accurate.
Bother.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
--
Well, if you're going to have a circus, you've got to have elephants.
-Jubal Harshaw in "Stranger in a Strange Land" by Robert Heinlein
Free Lunch
wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:
>On 16.04.2011 01:29, Free Lunch wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:49:17 +0200, Hendrik Schober<spam...@gmx.de>
>> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:
>>
>>> On 12.04.2011 01:57, Free Lunch wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>> [2] as in "Brno" vs. "Brünn" in German (I don't know whether it has an
>>>>> English name as well)
>>>>
>>>> I've never seen anything but Brno, and English is generally pretty
>>>> aggressive at inventing its own spelling of any town over 12 years old.
>>>
>>> Yeah, but Germans used to live in that area,
>>
>> And in Russia.
>
>And in Poland. And in Romania. And in Ukraine. (And probably more that I
>forgot to think of.) All of which I omitted, because they seemed irrelevant.
>
>> Did German change the names to Gdansk or Kaliningrad or are both still
>> generally known by their traditional names?
>
>Kaliningrad used to be a German city by the name "Königsberg". I think it's
>now mostly called by its Russian name. Gdansk, I think, we mostly calle by
>its German name "Danzig".
Okay.
>>> English didn't. That's probably
>>> why there are German names for many smaller and bigger villages, towns, and
>>> cities along the Polish-Czech border (and of course along the German-Czech
>>> and German-Polish borders), but no English names.
>>
>> I understand that cities are generally called by their local names if no
>> one in another language has invented a new name that is more friendly to
>> that language. English has own name or spelling for Moscow, Prague,
>> Warsaw, Hanover, Munich, Cologne (well, it doesn't use the German name)
>> and others and cheerfully pronounces Budapest, among others, the way it
>> likes. Brun would be the most likely anglicization of Brno, but I've
>> never seen it.
>
>Basically, this is what all cultures do. For some names, Cologne, the German
>name probably farer from the original name (Colonia) than the English one
>is. For others, our common Germanic roots shine through: Moscow is
>pronounced pretty much like the German Moskau, both quite far from the
>Russian Moskva.
>(Note that in German, Hanover has just one more "n" than your Hanover.)
Yes. One of the more interesting ones for me is our English-language
willingness to change the spelling of Hannover yet let Colombia be
spelled the Spanish way when we spell the equivalent word Columbia in
every other context.
John S. Wilkins
And Flynn, being Australian, could do a passable English accent. Unlike
Costner, Flannery, or Fairbanks. Likewise Crowe... (who is Australian
when doing well and Kiwi when not).
--
John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre
John S. Wilkins
Connery! Damn...
Hendrik Schober
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 02:43:47 +0200, Hendrik Schober<spam...@gmx.de>
> wrote in alt.fan.pratchett:
>>
>> Basically, this is what all cultures do. For some names, Cologne, the German
>> name probably farer from the original name (Colonia) than the English one
>> is. For others, our common Germanic roots shine through: Moscow is
>> pronounced pretty much like the German Moskau, both quite far from the
>> Russian Moskva.
>> (Note that in German, Hanover has just one more "n" than your Hanover.)
>
> Yes. One of the more interesting ones for me is our English-language
> willingness to change the spelling of Hannover yet let Colombia be
> spelled the Spanish way when we spell the equivalent word Columbia in
> every other context.
Language just doesn't make sense.
Schobi
jester
<dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>No, no. Errol Flynn is the definitive Robin Hood. Since it was made
>closer to the actual time period, the costuming is so much more
>accurate.
But I bet he still didn't have an English accent :-)
--
Andy Brown
Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit
patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor,
written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.
Lewis
> It's the future I want to see, purely out of curiosity. I would like to
> know whether we really do eradicate all diseases including the symptoms
> of aging, just how much we achieve when everybody gets adequate nutrition
> and healthcare throughout life, what happens on the music scene and in
> drama, whether our greening efforts do actually affect anything, whether
> we ever do produce an FTL drive, and so on.
AO FREAKING L
:)
Larry Moore
as they say,) are not unknown even in these enlightened days; whether
passing peak oil, disintermediation, and the effects of passing into the
next phase of the Club of Rome predictions will cause them to be more or
less common in the future is anyone's guess.
> And present-day smells are bad enough even with modern plumbing and
> food storage, and even though most people shower or whatever daily and
> it seems to be only (some) old women who wear perfume now. What would it
> be like to a modern nose when nobody washed and everybody wore plenty of
> perfume instead?
>
The organizations that we volunteer for all have strict 'no scent'
policies - (and an unwritten, but enforced, must-wash policy for clients
and volunteers.)
> It's the future I want to see, purely out of curiosity. I would like
> to know whether we really do eradicate all diseases including the
> symptoms of aging, just how much we achieve when everybody gets adequate
> nutrition and healthcare throughout life, what happens on the music
> scene and in drama, whether our greening efforts do actually affect
> anything, whether we ever do produce an FTL drive, and so on.
>
> Lesley.
>
I doubt any of the above will happen (except that humans sing and tell
stories, and shall continue to as long as we are human.)
Lesley Weston
> Lesley Weston<brightly_co...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
> news:io9mst$1jmr$1...@mud.stack.nl:
>
> <snip>
>>>
>> I'm not really interested in visiting the past, unique or otherwise.
>> There are always accounts of what happened, and you can pick your way
>> through them to build a plausible picture.
>
> Not really - history is written by the winners. Plausible is not the
> same as accurate.
That's true. But I'm still not that interested in rehashing old news.
That said [1], we're watching /The Borgias/ just now and I'm enjoying
it. Though I've stopped watching /The Pillars of the Earth/; I just
can't take that much violence depicted so graphically, even with all
that fine acting and such meticulous attention to the costumes and sets.
My husband has a stronger stomach so he still watches it, but on another
computer in another room.
>
>> Besides, there's all the
>> casual cruelty, all the starving children begging and so forth, and
>> even the people who consider themselves fortunate suffering horrible
>> diseases with no treatment and expecting to lose at least half their
>> children as a matter of course.
>
> This is different to modern day India, Africa and Asia exactly how?
It isn't, of course. That just makes it worse.
>
>> And present-day smells are bad enough even with modern plumbing
>> and food storage, and even though most people shower or whatever
>> daily
>
> Do they? I don't. Couple of times a week is quite sufficient, if I can
> be bothered. Same as washing your hair - leave it for a while and it
> cleans itself. Don't think I've even taken off the clothes I'm
> currently wearing in the past week. Nobody has been holding their nose
> and moving in the direction of 'away'
I did say "most".
>
>> it seems to be only (some) old women who wear perfume now. What would
>> it be like to a modern nose when nobody washed and everybody wore
>> plenty of perfume instead?
>
> Extremely bloody irritating. I detest people who walk around stinking
> of whatever Yves Saint Laurent says is this month's fragrance. I have
> actually asked for a different table in a restaurant because the stench
> of the perfume from the woman behind me was so overpowering. I'd rather
> smell good honest sweat from someone who's actually done a days work.
I agree, so long as it's the same day.
>
>
>> It's the future I want to see, purely out of curiosity. I would
>> like to know whether we really do eradicate all diseases including the
>> symptoms of aging,
>
> You can't prevent getting old, you can use various methods for
> rejuvenation but you still get old. I'll take my 3 score and ten (if I
> make it that far).
You can't stop time winged arrow moving in the just one direction, sure,
but you can perhaps stop it having all the bad effects it does. See the
research on telomeres. Eventually something wears out and you die, but
there's quite possibly no need for all the arthritis, cancer, heart
problems and so forth in the years leading up to your death.
>
>> just how much we achieve when everybody gets
>> adequate nutrition and healthcare throughout life,
>
> We achieve far too many people on a planet that can't support them. Why
> the f**k are people so unable to understand that?
Not at all. Good education follows good nutrition and good healthcare,
and good healthcare includes contraception.
>
>> what happens on the
>> music scene and in drama,
>
> Have you ever read 'The Forever War' by Joe Haldeman?
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forever_War
Yes I have. Excellent series.
>
> Try that one for what it's like to travel forward in time. You go and
> fight for a couple of subjective years, then return to a society that
> isn't the one you left and which you don't even recognise. So you
> reenlist to fight again. Repeat ad infinitum until you no longer know
> what the hell you're fighting for because it's no longer your society,
> possibly not even your race, anymore.
That's why short visits and always returning to your own time would be nice.
>
>> whether our greening efforts do actually
>> affect anything, whether we ever do produce an FTL drive, and so on.
>
>
> The theory and tech is there but it'll never happen. Just accept that
> we're going to live and die on a small blue/green planet in a backwater
> of the galaxy.
>
> So live as well as you can and die when the time is right.
No problem with that as a philosophy. It's the "as well as you can" bit
that's difficult even for us in this culture, let alone for the teeming
millions.
>
> Sorry to be downbeat but as an engineer I'm a realist - we don't need
> alien invasions or whatever, the human race is quite capable of fucking
> itself over without outside assistance.
And equally capable of continuing the onwards-and-upwards trend that
we've always managed so far apart from a few temporary setbacks.
[1] Sorry to irritate whoever it was who said that "that said" is
irritating.